PvE/PvP build

You again ? =)

Well, if you want a stun build for PvP, you'd better get an inventor asap, and a cannoneer as well.

Later, add a jani and have a great time in FL ;)

And you'd better get your main front line (hope your monk has shield of protection) because the exorcist needs to be back row to avoid being silenced (still talking about PvP here).

OMG, we keeeep running into each other, lol. (Not that its a bad thing, you provide great help). Well, if I front lined main, he would be behind which still...right? And no, I use protection, not SoP. Also, I don't really want a stun build. See here's the thing, I have my 2 archer, right? I use them to snipe+stun the monk, I was just thinking that what if I could stun the monk+2 others...but then I realized recently that just sniping might be better...especially after talking to some other ppl...so...about SoP vs protect...I thought that protect was better for melee main, as opposed to staff or range that just sit in the back...but maybe I need a little review on difference between SoP and protect? Would be happy if you could help :) thanks

Well, first of all, take a look at the thread I created myself not so long ago : http://aop.muwing.com/forum/390-protect-or-shield-of-protection-for-sword-main-and-maniac

If you've taken protect and already have many levels in it, it's not that catastrophic. I have a sword main guildmate who has max protect and he survives alright too. Otherwise, it's still time to buy skill decrease books.
If you do it and go SoP, and if you've got good gear, your main can frontline without too many problems.

You can also, like you were saying, put your main behind your witch and use such a build :

BT / Sword / Witch
Prophet / Archer / Main
Shaman / Exo / Monk

If you're not PvPing that often, I'd advise you to get an oracle instead of the shaman, they heal so much better.
For the same reason, non-intensive PvP would be ideally complemented by the purchase of a permanent merc room, where you would store your exo and swap it for a more PvE-oriented merc.

About the inventor, he's a better version of a gunner, but his skill is not that great in PvE so you'd better wait for the janissary (once again, this is if you don't PvP intensively). And the inventor is the basis of a stun build, so if it's not that you want...
Prophet + archer is a great combination, especially since the last patch, the sniping works great in both PvE and PvP. I'm planning to get double archers in my future maniac build as well.

If I recall correctly, SoP doesn't heal when hit by magic? Me being axe main, magic is a weakness for me, if I don't get healed from those, because they do a lot of damage to me, I don't think it would work. I suppose I should get an oracle...was going to keep sham but now that they nerfed Noble sac so bad...yeah...I don't PvP intensively, just sometimes for a means of making money. And, what do you mean by good gear? I am actually level 90 now...and have all +2 dragon heart armor...is that good enough?

Amen to NS axe brother.

The nerf to NS imo only changed the time you play it. It should just be cast earlier, but then again, the Oracle does a better job in healing.

In Wraith's thread about the SoP/Protect debate i think I had a light-bulb moment and realized that Protect's only weakness is high damage sniping. Since Snipe builds are all the craze now i might change my main's position. So i think this could be the most definitive basis for deciding what skill Monk will take along.

Protect is good for a frontline main, coz it heals the magic/non magic every turn. The mana drain is manageable because your main will actually be taking damage all the time (hopefully).

But it leaves a hole open for snipe builds, because the damage they can deliver is greater than what protect can give back. SoP on the other hand, reduces the effectiveness of snipe builds. AT the cost of being vulnerable to magic.

I hope this makes sense. If anything the conclusion on those 2 skills are they're both good, but both lacking as well, and either should be complemented by something else. :) better armor can solve Protect's holes. I'm guessing accessories? Can solve SoP's...

I think in a pve standpoint a +3 all around can keep you healthy throughout the quests around your level, especially since you've got the C-class mercs and their abilities. I would emphasize on weapons though. Long matches with annoying mobs are not my favorite thing, and i want to bring them down as quickly as possible. :)

Axe mains are nowhere near as bad as vikings (mdef 126 vs -50 !).
Sword mains get 156, but don't have the built-in fire resistance that ordinary sword mercs enjoy.
So, you see, there's not such a difference between our mains (except maybe the defense the shield provides).

+2 dragon is alright for lvl 90, no problem. Like Gazz says, good weapons are important too, for the faster kills, and also for the better stats (+vit and + str for axes !).
To frontline "safely", the good gear also consists of good Necropolis rings. Do Necro 4 times and you'll have 2 spearmaster rings +1 (or more if you're lucky at enchanting), which will considerably help in terms of mdef.
Hats and costumes will also help with their +50 vit bonuses each. I never bought anything at the item mall, but I bought those ingame.
Same for my mount.

Wow you just read my mind...kinda...I am finishing necro, planning to do it again, wasn't planning on doing it 4 times...but now I might, was also planning on getting spearmaster rings. I am also trying to get costumes, I try to get the cheapest, then jus hide em if I don't like the looks. I also have/will get mounts with more +vit. About the weapon, I have the Grudge of Grendel, soon to be +1. Alright, back to the main event. Would I really get sniped with witch in front and me behind her? Seems like they wouldn't do that because they can reach me anyway, and would most likely save the snipers for the witch (which would kill her fast but she's REALLY easy to heal). I think I just need to get monks protect up higher...does anyone think that monk has too many important skills? He's not that easy to lvl, so he doesn't get a lot of skill points, then I can't decide what to give him. Could someone help me with what to do with his skills at lvl 80? Oh yeah, back to SoP vs Protect, as Gazz said, both are lacking, but can be complemented by something else. I think it is gear that complements Protect, and some say, for a melee main, that concentrate can. So if you think about THAT, since I have a prophet with lvl 40 concentrate, I think that Maybe SoP would be better for me? And, Gazz how did you do that "Witness my rise" at the bottom of your post? Alright, hope someone can help me with this :D thx in advance :)

You might as well only do Necro twice, since, unfortunately, the mdef on spearmasters don't improve with enchants. I did it four times anyway to see if I was lucky at enchanting (which failed =) ).

On Mycenae, I got my bunny hat at 35 mil and my casino dress at 100 mil. With a bit of luck, you can find that cheaper, depends on the ones you want of course. And you can always hide them, as you mentioned, since the bunny suit is particularly ugly ;)

About the mounts, I was lucky enough to win two different contests on MMOsite, which gave me 2 thoroughbreds, that I exchanged with Ahammad for a hackney. I later bought an unarmed elephant around 150 mil iirc (or was it 135 ?).
I've always dreamed of owning an armed tiger, but the prices are ridiculously high, surely around 900 mil, so I stopped dreaming and set my sights on an armed elephant (less than 500 mil). Just compare the stat bonuses ; what the tiger has more than the elephant are the following : around +100 dmg, +80 in str and dex, +20 in vit and +100 in def. Imo, sure isn't worth that much money.

And yes, the witch won't help against archer's sniping, if they want to kill your main first of course. They'll otherwise target her - getting rid of a meteor shower is always good =p - but she'll fall fast against snipers (high grade staffs provide nice +vit bonuses for her).

My plan for the monk is 60 SoP, 45 awakening and 45 holy guard.

Well...you really didn't give me anything exact lol. Like, is it still good idea the way I have my main and witch? (one thing is sure, I need to get new gear for all my staff mercs). I, like you, have an unarmed elephant, not sure whether to go straight to armed, or go to unarmed tiger first.

So yeah...I dunno....*is still confused*

After your Necro runs and with your new shiny rings, try frontlining with your main to see the improvement.
And maybe consider taking SoP in that case, although I think it could work fine with Protect. You have to judge by yourself.

Put your main in the middle of the front row, with the witch directly behind him, and the exo back row.

I'd stay with the unarmed ele, the unarmed tiger is just a little bit better and already much more expensive.

So, build would be something like this?

bt/main/sword(soon lk)
archer/witch/prophet
sham/exo/monk

And yeah, I've decided to go from unarmed ele to armed. Not going to tiger.

So...if I'm gonna frontline main, I think I would stick with protect...but I really don't know...

O.o for some reason in my last post I said "I think it is gear that complements Protect, and some say, for a melee main, that concentrate can." I meant to say, that concentrate can complement SoP. Do you know anything about this?

Wrath that's my signature at the bottom, you can change yours in account preferences. :)

The monk feels like it has too many skills, fortunately it can easily managed. The real problem is merely the fact that you have to decide quickly what skill you'll use, whether its awakening to prevent the stun, or holy guard to protect your front, mid, even the back from mana seal/Silence/etc.

The build i have on my monk is this: 60 Protect (or SoP, whichever you want), 49 awakening, 11 holy guard. Why only 11? At 11, your HG will cast work 100% of the time. Any point investment will only increase the heal. But then again, depends on your form. If you have a prophet and healer, you can probably negate whatever damage taken while they were under HG.

Try a couple of matches with your main up front. Equipped with Protect (even if the opponent knows that) might prove to be a brain teaser for your enemy. BT and Sword have high def, and will take a while to punch through, hitting you will take more effort than taking the other frontliners down. See how opponent reacts to your position in relation to your formation. And see what kind of builds target you, or other mercs. This way you'll know where you can improve upon. And yes its those clothes/mounts etc that allow mains that otherwise would hide in the back be good frontliners.

I think Concentrate complements SoP because of the per turn heal for all melee mercs. Its like a mini protect for melee mercs. So ideally it will heal some magic damage you took from the previous round. :)

So, i will try it with protect, if that doesnt work out, ill try it with SoP.

About the monk's skill breakdown, I'm planning on 45 for the holy guard, despite the fact that I have an oracle with max healing and a prophet with max concentrate. The reason is that I often HG my front line, because more and more monsters use (quite hurtful) skills, and using it prevents the other 2 mercs' healing skills to take effect. So I'd better have a nice heal component on the HG.

Yep, i was thinking about it when i read your breakdown and it makes a lot of sense to do that. :)

Yeah, since you cannot heal hg'd mercs, I guess its good to have it heal well.

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